Help Teach

Help Teach: Episode 12 - Late to the Party
Mihai Covaser: [00:00:00] Welcome back, learners and learned alike, to Help Teach.

Mihai Covaser: Hello and welcome, as usual, to our community audio project. I am your host, editor, producer, and project co-lead: Mihai Covaser. I am also a youth living with a physical disability. My most formative experiences living with a disability have come in the Canadian public education system. Many students like me, with physical, emotional, or mental challenges, go through their years of schooling lacking the supports and accommodations they need to partake of the same opportunities offered to their peers. The vision of this project is to provide educators in Canadian classrooms, students with disabilities, and members of the general public, with the tools and knowledge that they need to make our institutions more accessible and inclusive for all. Join me and a diverse cast of guests as we explore perspectives on disabilities and education in this podcast series. And, before I offer my usual last message, [00:01:00] I wanted to add that this, episode twelve of the show, will mark the end of Season One. Since we’re coming into a new year, I’d love to take this opportunity to end off Season One with another wonderful guest and another of my contacts from the Rick Hansen Foundation, and then next season, we’ll kick it off with some new guests, some new opportunities, and some new ways to get involved. So I wanted to just offer a huge thank-you to everyone who has tuned into the show so far, and to everyone who has supported me in making this project a reality. I really hope that you’ll stick around for the great stories that we’ll have for the rest of this new year. With that being said, one last message for you teachers tuning in: Listen in each episode for our key takeaway that you can implement in your classroom today to help us further this vision.

Mihai Covaser: My guest for today is one of the two newest members of the Youth Leadership Committee–of which I am the chair [00:02:00] under the Rick Hansen Foundation–and a passionate para athlete, with a vision for change in post-secondary institutions. This is a guest with whom I have had the wonderful opportunity to speak many times in the past, and I’m just so thankful that he came on the show, so I’d love to welcome, without further ado, for our discussion today: James Kwinecki. Welcome to the show, James.

James Kwinecki: Thank you, Mihai. Thank you for the introduction and I’m really happy to be on the show.

Mihai Covaser: So, first and foremost, as I like to do with all of my new guests, could you please just start by telling us a little bit about you? Maybe where you’re from, what you’re currently doing, some of your interests, anything like that?

James Kwinecki: Yeah, yeah, of course. I currently live in Victoria, British Columbia. I’m studying sociology and social justice at the University of Victoria, and currently participate on the national para rowing team here in Canada, as a visually impaired athlete. And yeah, I’ve taken quite an interest [00:03:00] in advocacy and just, like just trying to give back to the community. As somebody who’s a bit more mature in para sport, I see the power of para sport and just the participation, and I really want to see the rest of the community be a little bit more inclusive in it, so…yeah.

Mihai Covaser: Absolutely. That’s great to hear. So, James, for our audience that may not have a lot of knowledge on how various visual impairments or visual disabilities might come about, I was hoping, maybe, would you tell us a little bit about how and when you came to have your disability, and maybe what other visually impaired disabilities might look like? Just a couple, just to give our audience some context?

James Kwinecki: Yeah. So it is such a spectrum. Most people would have no, like, real idea when I say that I’m blind or legally blind; they immediately think that I can’t see anything at all, which is not really the case whatsoever. My sight loss [00:04:00] journey sort of began at a weird age, of age twenty-one, and I was sort of working fulltime already at the time, and had to stop working due to safety concerns, and really had to forge a new path in life. And, I mean, I was diagnosed with a rare hereditary disease called Leber’s, and really just like faced central vision loss within a matter of months through the summer of 2016. So yeah, like I said, my vision loss is central vision loss, where I have a blind spot in the center of my vision with still a large amount of view left, just no like acuity. And many other people could potentially lose their vision and sort see through like the pinhole, so they only have their central vision loss–Or I mean, they only have their central vision, so it’s quite a spectrum, and even people who I know with my eye disease that I’ve met [00:05:00] sort of experience it completely different than I do, as well. So…yeah.

Mihai Covaser: That’s very interesting. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate it when, you know, you and other guests are able to just give us some information on that, because I know that, as someone with cerebral palsy, for example, I always have an interesting time explaining to people why I, for example, can use my arms or I can talk, but I just can’t walk very well, whereas other people are in a wheelchair. It can be a very wide, as you say, spectrum of disabilities and that just contributes to how complicated it is to get proper accessibility, right?

James Kwinecki: Mhm. Yeah, like I could potentially, you know, leave my white cane at home. I don’t really need a guide dog, so I could walk around with an invisible disability, and I have done that in the past, and society just treats me so much different when I just pull out the white cane. At first, it was difficult, but when I began to use the white–my white cane more, [00:06:00] just to give a bit of like a heads-up to people around me, the world just treated me so much better and there was just so much more like accommodations around me.

Mihai Covaser: Interesting.

James Kwinecki: Which really helped my self-esteem.
Mihai Covaser: Wow, yeah. Well, we’ll get into that discussion just shortly here. Before we do, I would love to ask you a little more about your interest in para sports, too. So why don’t you tell us a little bit–what sports have you done, for example, and how has that experience been for you?

James Kwinecki: So yeah, I mean, para sport has really just given me like an outlet to, like, community and so many new connections. I mean, I started playing blind baseball like a year after losing my vision and it was really just a great opportunity for me to play a game again and just experience what it is like to, like, win and lose, and have some really good team community. And it sort of like paved the way for me to just stay active and just stay involved in different things, and I [00:07:00] have done other para sports, such as tandem cycling, and then that sort of lead me to para rowing, where now I participate in that fulltime at the national level. I’ve gone to compete internationally a few times and currently have hopes to go to the Paralympics in 2024.

Mihai Covaser: That’s spectacular. Yes, everyone watch out for James Kwinecki’s name on the next Canada National Paralympic Championship there. That would be something to see! Best of luck with that! You told me as well that rowing was something that motivated you to get back into–or more into–education, as well, right? Can you tell us a bit about your education journey and how those are related?

James Kwinecki: Yeah, so like I said, when I lost my vision, I was twenty-one, and I really had to forge a whole new path in life. I know I was really stuck in a few crossroads and like “What do I do next?” and when I got into para sport, it was an awesome opportunity [00:08:00] and I was lucky enough that Rowing Canada had partnerships across the country at the local universities. So after meeting the coaches at Brock University in southern Ontario, they, like, essentially convinced me just to take some courses and sort of better my knowledge, and just like expand the way that I think. It could also potentially help me develop as an athlete, as well, so I think it was a great opportunity for me to start, and then it sort of led me to move to Victoria, where the national rowing team trains year round, and then I was able to transfer all my credits at Brock and come to UVic, where I’ve had to experience a new way of learning, as well, so it’s been an awesome experience.

Mihai Covaser: And as part of your journey at UVic, [00:09:00] you were telling me about some research that you were doing into Braille. Is that right?

James Kwinecki: Yeah, really. I mean, Braille’s very interesting. Like I said, when I lost my vision, I didn’t know what to do. I was like, “What resources are out there?” and immediately, the first thing I learned was my Apple iPhone, where it has a built-in screen reader that I was able to use, able to access my phone again, the way I was able to before. And I was interested in Braille at that time, but there wasn’t really anywhere for me to go to learn Braille. I know in Canada, it’s really–You gotta be in the right place at the right time or have some really good connections with like a private lesson to learn Braille. And, I mean, after writing this paper this past semester, it gave me another sense into, like, “Is Braille even gonna be that useful?” and, “Does society need to shift a bit [00:10:00] more to, like, recognize power of assisted technology?” Just in the fact that technology’s becoming so much more, like, accessible and easier to use.

Mihai Covaser: Absolutely. Well, that is actually a great point of transition here to what I want to talk about next. But just before we get there: don’t go anywhere, audience members. We’re just gonna take a short pause here, before moving on to a discussion about exactly this: what it’s like to get into the world of disability at a later stage in life and the kinds of attitudes and resources with which you are faced, as a result of that, as compared to growing up with a disability. So don’t go anywhere; we’ll be right back.

Mihai Covaser: Welcome back to Help Teach. I’m here today speaking to a fellow youth leader and a connection of mine: James Kwinecki. And we were just getting into this discussion about Braille and assistive technology, but also you mentioned that [00:11:00] you got your disability at the age of twenty-one. I actually don’t have the statistics on this, whether or not it’s more or less common to get a disability later or sooner, but regardless, it’s a very different experience–yours as compared to mine, for example, having grown up with a disability. So I just want to open the discussion there. What was it like to become vision-impaired at twenty-one? How has that experience been for you, kind of in a nutshell?

James Kwinecki: Yeah, I mean, it’s been a real rollercoaster. Like I said, the first year after losing my vision, it was a rough time. I mean, I still had enough vision where I could, you know, get around somewhat okay, but really, it was just coming to terms with my sight loss. Sort of helped me pave the way for a new life, and it has just given me so many new opportunities and a whole new perspective on the world, and people who live with disabilities. And I think losing my vision at a mature age kind of [00:12:00] gave me a bit more of a mature perspective on it, and don’t get me wrong; it was rough, but I was able to move past it. Although I might seem old to you, twenty-one is still very young, so I’ve got a long life ahead of me.

Mihai Covaser: Absolutely, absolutely. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling you old. Of course, I have–As a nineteen-year-old myself, I have a bit of a different perspective on it, but nonetheless, yeah! You’re right. I think you never quite–in my experience, anyway–get fully accustomed to living with a disability, in the sense that, just like anyone else that doesn’t live with a disability, life will always present you with new technologies, new barriers, new challenges, new ways of living and learning, right? And so, regardless, you know, of how long you’ve had, so to speak, [00:13:00] to get accustomed to a disability, it’s not quite like that, right? I mean, there’s always new things that come up.

James Kwinecki: Oh, yeah! And I know people who have their sight, 20/20 vision or ablebodied people, and they’re–I use technology better than them. It’s just something that I’ve had to learn and that I’ve had to live with.

Mihai Covaser: Absolutely. And you mentioned something–if I may quote you–you mentioned something that I think is really, really interesting: that the hardest part about having a disability is not the disability itself, but the fact that the world is no longer accessible to you. So I was wondering if you could elaborate on that, because I think that’s a really powerful statement.

James Kwinecki: Yeah. I mean, it’s just many barriers you wouldn’t even think of, that I encounter now…It’s just a completely different world. Especially knowing how powerful tech is in, like, the world, [00:14:00] and how more accessible it really is, it can be really frustrating to know that a lot of society isn’t really on board with implementing their technology to be fully accessible, with screen readers or with larger text or just creating a more inclusive sort of environment.

Mihai Covaser: I think that statement resonates with me because I’ve always been of the mindset that living with a disability, as much as I can possibly make it be a non-issue for myself, the better, in the sense that, as you say, there are times when some of us that have disabilities that don’t necessarily come with visual cues–You can just walk into a room and have it be invisible, right, until such a time as someone asks about it or you have to interact in a certain way, whatever. I know this isn’t the opinion of everyone in the community, but as much as possible, I would love to see a world where I can walk into any room in any institution and just contribute [00:15:00] in whatever way I know I can and put my strengths forward, without having that be an obstacle, right, or a challenge in the way. I know that that’s not always the case; I know that recently, we spoke on a webinar together with a few of my other co-leads, and we had a discussion about that, right, about how disability can also be a big identity feature for a lot of people. But I think you’re right; I agree with you personally, that the world being not accessible is really the big issue, more than the disability itself is, and I get into whether you see it as, again, a medical thing, a problem, or a social thing; whether the world is actually there, accessible to you.

James Kwinecki: Yeah. I mean, exactly, and that’s exactly it when it comes to school, and I don’t have experience in primary school or high school with my disability, but in post-secondary, you know, everything–With living through the pandemic, as a society, we were able to show ourselves, that we can do this [00:16:00] online, with technology as like a hybrid model of learning. When universities went back into face-to-face, you know, there wasn’t the opportunity to continue hybrid learning, where if you have a disability that keeps you home or you’re not able to be mobile, it’s a huge, huge barrier if you have to go to school face-to-face, and having the option to go online and submit papers online is a really huge opportunity that I really think schools need to take advantage of.

Mihai Covaser: So, speaking of which, what is the alternative? So we were talking a bit about this in our planning session, but now screen readers and technology are more powerful than ever, but before–and you mentioned this in our first half–the only option for a lot of people was something like Braille. So would you explain to our audience a little bit about what that’s like, how that evolution has been, and whether Braille is really an accessible or a feasible feature [00:17:00] for you today?

James Kwinecki: Yeah, I mean, after writing this paper that I just wrote, it’s been on my mind a lot lately, and I think about it just in my day-to-day. In buildings, or even just in elevators, where they don’t have talking elevators yet, they just have Braille on all the buttons. I mean, in the early 1900s and through the 20th century, Braille was the only option for blind or low-vision to access information, and I mean, technology has just taken a huge leap from just a screen reader on the computer to audiobooks to even now, since like 2009, there’s been a huge shift to this application called VoiceOver, which is an Apple software built onto all Apple devices, and it’s essentially a screen reader built in that can read everything your cursor goes over. [00:18:00] So Braille has become sort of obsolete in that sense, where there are so many resources that go into teaching a young person or any person Braille. There’s books, teachers, stuff, and an iPad would cost like a fraction of that, and it’s very simple to use. You know, there’s tutorials online that you can just go on YouTube, learn how to use the screen reader on your tablet, and essentially, like, we all know kids are using tablets and Chromebooks in their classrooms nowadays. I mean, a blind student wouldn’t really be singled out anymore in just learning the device.

Mihai Covaser: Yeah. That’s very interesting. I want to come back to that in just a moment, but there’s one other thing to talk about this whole idea of being late to the game, so to speak. You were mentioning that to learn as you grow or to have, for example, a visual impairment diagnosed at an early age and to grow up [00:19:00] with that is a different experience than having to pick it up later, and you were talking about when Braille was still the dominant option, adults had a much more difficult time than kids with getting involved with that, is that right?

James Kwinecki: Oh, yeah, yeah. For sure. I mean, even the research showed that when you’re an adult and you lose your vision, you already know your literacy skills. You don’t need to learn, you know, grammar, punctuation, or spelling, because you already know it; you just can’t see anymore. So you’re unable to read in that sense, but you’re gonna have to teach yourself a whole new way of receiving information, and the research even showed that your ability to feel through your fingers, it lowers with age, so it becomes even more frustrating to learn Braille. And then like I said, I face social stigma around my disability at my age, and the research [00:20:00] even showed that as well, like people take a long time to come to terms with their disability and to come to terms with sight loss. It’s a very frustrating time and learning a whole new language at that age can be very frustrating.

Mihai Covaser: And there are very few places accessible to teach you that kind of thing, right, outside of the actual school system and private instructors?

James Kwinecki: Yeah, so like I said, like primary school is best practice, because the public school system has those resources that can go to like a young child that needs to learn Braille, and they can learn as they grow and they develop in their age. And then they can build their own sort of learning skills that they’re already learning at the time. I mean, across Canada, resources are very scarce, and like I said at the beginning [00:21:00] of the interview, in my own journey, I grew up in like a pretty metro city in southern Ontario, and you wouldn’t think resources are scarce for learning Braille, but it really is. Even across Canada, it’s not common for somebody who’s at a mature age to go out and learn Braille and there’s not much ability to have success at that.

Mihai Covaser: Interesting. Yeah, I mean, speaking from the experience of someone who went through the education system with a disability, it’s interesting that there can be such a different perspective on it, because for someone like yourself, you’re looking at the education system as a place that really has the potential to offer resources or to have access to certain kinds of resources, and to offer them at the students’ early age, whereas for me, I always have a perspective that’s like, “There’s never enough resources for students at that [00:22:00] early age.” And so it’s very interesting how those experiences can shape your perspective, where there are places that the education system can very much improve, and where there are places where they have some really great options on the table that they could be implementing.

James Kwinecki: Mhm.

Mihai Covaser: Speaking of these implementations in the school system, I think that takes us very nicely into our key takeaway for this episode and some options for primary school teachers to be more accessible to students with visual impairments, so… You gave me a very interesting idea about an assignment alternative. I was wondering if you could share that with our audience here today.

James Kwinecki: Yeah, so I really think it can be interesting for even a young person, even a teacher, to understand how screen reading softwares work and how assistive technology works. I would really think that if a teacher wants to include students to show them [00:23:00] a tutorial on their own Chromebooks, or whatever tablets that the students use in their classrooms, to turn on the accessibility features and turn on their screen reader, and possibly type out a couple sentences and then try to send it to their teacher and hand it in, and see how they’re able to interact with the technology and how difficult it may be, or how easy it is, you know.

Mihai Covaser: Alternatively, if there is little access to this kind of technology in the classroom or if it’s just not feasible to do, no problem. The other thing that I would really recommend for teachers, an optional takeaway, is just to offer audio description on your visual content. If you ever show a video in class or anything like that, this is basically the counterpart to captions for people that are deaf or hard-of-hearing, is that right, James?

James Kwinecki: Yeah, definitely. And I can almost guarantee you many children, and even teachers, [00:24:00] are gonna be new to this sort of way of watching a movie or a film, and yeah, if teachers want to turn on the audio description for a film or even have students try to describe a film over, like, an assignment, it could be really interesting to see what the students come up with.

Mihai Covaser: Absolutely. Well, it’s been wonderful to talk to you on the show today, James. I really appreciate you coming out and sharing your experiences, sharing your stories, so hopefully we’ll have you on again sometime.

James Kwinecki: Yeah, thank you, Mihai. I really appreciate coming on.

Mihai Covaser: You’ve just heard another episode of the community audio project, Help Teach. I’d like to give a huge thank you to all of my co-leads on this project, Payton Given, Maggie Manning, Élise Doucet, and Alexis Holmgren, all youth leaders at the Rick Hansen Foundation, who I’d also like to thank for their continued support in this initiative and others. I’d like to give a huge shout-out to our community mentor for this project, Charl Coetzee. [00:25:00] My name is Mihai Covaser. I am your host, editor, and producer for this podcast series. And this, as I mentioned, wraps up Season One of Help Teach. Another huge thank you to Every Canadian Counts and their #RisingYouth initiative for getting this project off the ground in the first place, and for allowing us to put our vision for change out in the community. You can now find all transcripts, episode notes, and links to other resources on the official site HelpTeach.transistor.fm, or listen to us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And if you have any questions about the show or would like to get involved, please don’t hesitate to get in touch at helpteachpodcast@gmail.com. There we can take your questions and answer them in future episodes. Tune in next time for more great conversations and key takeaways that you educators can implement in the classroom today, to make it a more accessible and inclusive place for all. Thank you for listening, [00:26:00] and I’ll see you next time.