Help Teach

Help Teach: Episode 24 - Making Time

 Mihai Covaser [00:00:00]: Welcome learners, and learned alike, to Help Teach!

 Mihai Covaser [00:00:09]: Hello, and welcome to our community audio project. I am your host, editor, producer, and project co-lead, Mihai Covaser. I'm also a youth living with a physical disability. My most formative experiences living with a disability have come in the Canadian public education system. Many students like me with physical, emotional, or mental challenges go through their years of schooling lacking the supports and accommodations they need to partake of the same opportunities offered to their peers. The vision of this project is to provide educators in Canadian classrooms, students with disabilities, and members of the general public with the tools and knowledge that they need to make our institutions more accessible and inclusive for all. Join me and a diverse cast of guests as we explore perspectives on disabilities in education in this podcast series. One last message for you teachers tuning in, listen in each episode for our key takeaway that you can implement in your classroom today to help us further this vision.

 Mihai Covaser [00:00:14]: Hello, and welcome back to Help Teach. Today, I am very happy to have with me a special guest to talk as a follow-up on Episode 22 on the subject of resource staff in education. That episode with Jordan Lowe talked a lot about the relative quality of different resource staff in our lived experiences in education and things that they might consider in order to become more inclusive and to better support their students. And today I have one such support staff person, a CEA, by the name of Delrene Stade, to talk to me today about that topic. Delrene, welcome to the show!

Delrene Stade [00:02:02]: Thank you, it’s great to be here.

 Mihai Covaser [00:02:05]: So Delrene, as I start all of my episodes, I would love to talk a little bit about you and get the audience to get to know you a little bit before we get talking about the meat and potatoes of today's episode. So why don't you just start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

Delrene Stade [00:02:20]: For sure. Thank you, Mihai! My name is Delrene Stade, as you mentioned. My husband and I, we've been married for 31 years. We have three grown children and four grandchildren. One that's in the school system.

 Mihai Covaser [00:02:32]: Congratulations!

Delrene Stade [00:02:33]: Thank you! Thank you! I initially, actually, went to school for dental assisting and fell in love with working with children then. I was working at the UBC dental clinic, primarily pediatrics. Either with children with low-income families, children with fears of anything dental-related, and/or special needs and disabilities. After having three children of my own, I actually took 10 years off, stayed at home and raised our children. But when they became school-aged, I was the regular body in their school, helping wherever they needed support. And inclusive education was really starting to take shape at that time. And I really fell in love with the classroom, the school community, and I had a window into this world where it was a crucial environment that fostered mentoring and supporting learning, both academically and socially. And so one day a teacher asked me why I wasn't an education assistant, because that's exactly what I was doing. I actually had no idea there was such a thing.

 Mihai Covaser [00:03:29]: Really?

Delrene Stade [00:03:30]: Yeah! After quick research of the career and the role of a certified Education Assistant, I thought, yeah, I signed up. And I took a course.

 Mihai Covaser [00:03:37]: Awesome. Yeah, so actually I do want to clarify some of those, either misconceptions or just lack of knowledge that people might have around that. So, what is a CEA? Why are they called something different in every province? And how do you get there? Just in brief, in terms of the training you need and that kind of thing.

Delrene Stade [00:04:00]: Yeah, I believe there's different training, yes, inter-provincially it's so different. When I first started it was an EA: Education Assistant. And then it was- or actually, sorry, it was a TA, for a Teacher's Assistant. But I guess that was hard in the classroom because it was misconstrued that you were the assistant to the teacher. So, the photocopying, the marking of papers and things like that, was not our role. So they changed it to EA: Educational Assistant. But then people had, I guess, individuals thought that they could join in or become an EA, but they didn't need to be certified. And I know in Alberta there’s CEA’s, well EAs, that are in the school sector that aren't certified.

 Mihai Covaser [00:04:51]: Okay.

Delrene Stade [00:04:52]: They just have, like, a basic training. So they are EAs but they're not certified and get paid a minimum wage.

 Mihai Covaser [00:04:57]: I see.

Delrene Stade [00:04:58]: So if you go to school and take the program, then you become certified. So that's how it evolved into CEA: Certified Education Assistance.

 Mihai Covaser [00:05:09]: Okay, okay. That makes sense! That makes a lot of sense. Important to clarify that for TA. Like, as somebody that goes to university, I'd be very confused walking into a class or taking my kids to school, for example, and seeing TA. Not quite what I'm expecting. So you told us a little bit about how you got started there and how you fell in love with supporting children in that way, which I just think is great. I mean, luckily in my experience, I've had similar CEAs that talk a lot about this passion and this love for supporting children, which I think we'll get into a lot more in our discussion. Just to kind of preface that, though. What would you say were your best and worst experiences so far as a CEA and when and where were they? And this is not to, you know, say anything about anyone in particular, or to make any criticism. But I'm just curious what the range of experience really looks like in your role and for someone that's been in your role, as long as you have. What do highs and the lows look like?

Delrene Stade [00:06:10]: Right. There are highs and lows. But yeah, I have to say, I can't say I've had a worst experience or the worst experience. But there were those times working with the students. You put your whole heart and soul and you give all that you can, and all that you give with all the resources put in place, following a strategy plan, but the students outside environment is working against them. Plateaus or regression happen time and time again because of their home environment. And you know that the time is ticking. I mean, we only have these kiddos for a few short years in their lives before they're out on their own. Which is why immediate strategy and careful planning is designed for our vulnerable students. But, being able to apply those strategies is like following a recipe for soufflé. I love baking! I’m a baker. You can carefully follow the instructions to a T that will ensure just absolute wow results, but then putting it in an uneven temperate, or even a cold oven, you’ll get unfortunate results. You can do all you can in the classroom, teachers can do all they can, the CEAs can do all, follow a plan to a T, but honestly, it's nice to work in tandem with parents, with guardians, with outside environments. And when you don't have that, that's always disheartening sometimes.

 Mihai Covaser [00:07:38]: Right. Right.

Delrene Stade [00:07:39]: To walk away at the end of the day. So, yeah, that's probably the worst case scenario. And I've had a few of those. Not many but a few, but I'd have to say the best experience is the honour of being there, in time, being a witness to a student overcoming fears. Being confident socially, making friends and connections. That just brings tears to my eyes. To see a real timid child and you give them the tools so that they can make friends. And it's like, yes! Oh, the best memory, the best memory I have honestly, is scribing for an amazing student with cerebral palsy, who was writing his first book. Or being a key reference for a first job or an entrance to college. My goodness. It's so rewarding. The best—I have to say—this is the best story. Our older son went to university in Nova Scotia and during his third year he was approached by a girl one day at the cafeteria asking him if his mom was Mrs. Stade. He was in a grade three class where one of the students I supported was, and she wasn't even on my roster. And she remembered me so vividly stating how she just loved me. And how much of a difference I made in her young life at that time. And it spoke volumes to my son because all he knows me as a mom. Yeah, she was just such a sweet, sweet girl, but that was such a beautiful reminder, perfect reminder of what I do as a CEA. I am not just there to support one student. My heart and attitude is there for all.

 Mihai Covaser [00:09:14:] Yeah.

Delrene Stade [00:09:15]: They're watching us, we’re mentors, right?

 Mihai Covaser [00:09:18]: Yeah, yeah! And, you know, I have to say, I mean, that really beautiful and that really makes the experience, I mean. And same thing with supporting students at the university in terms of, I give tours for students at the university, or I did. To introduce them to campus and everything is called the student ambassador program. And we helped get them acclimatised to everything. One girl walked up to me and, you know, I mean, I've gone through, every week I would do these tours. And so I see tens of university students and maybe hundreds. Right. And so I don't remember everyone, but she walked up to me and she was like, hi. And I'm, you know, I'm blanking. I'm like, oh, did I tutor you? Did I? Or were you on my tour? But she said “oh yeah I did your tour and you made my decision to come to UBC because of the postcard that you sent after that came home.” It's an incredible feeling. I totally agree. With that, I do want to remind our listeners that you're listening to Help Teach, and that after a short break here, we're going to get started talking about the CEA experience and some of the difficult spots that you mentioned and how we can maybe improve them to continue to support students. So don't go anywhere, we'll be right back!

 Mihai Covaser [00:010:48]: Welcome back to Help Teach, where today I have the pleasure to be talking to Delrene Stade, CEA in the school system who was just talking about some of the highest, but also the low points of working as a CEA in the system and what that might look like. So, just getting back to that discussion, I want to ask you: what is the situation like for CEAs? The graduates and hires now, the way you see it. Just to sort of give that perspective. I mean, as students we see something which is whether or not we get the support we need, whether there seem to be difficulties, but we don't often see the picture or the big picture behind the scenes. So, what is that situation like in your perspective right now?

Delrene Stade [00:11:39]: Right, right, for sure. While there are some institutions that have fantastic CEA programs, there are many, however, there are many that do not. And CEAs that are coming through the system right now, that are coming through some of those not so great institutions, are not being taught the essential skills to be in the trenches. I say trenches because some students and some days can be so unpredictable and very difficult. There are two CEAs that I have had the pleasure of meeting and shadowing me, who came through the program where their final assignment project was to make a website.

 Mihai Covaser [00:012:18]: So just to clarify their final project for graduating from a program designed to certify them to be Educational Assistants was to create a website?

Delrene Stade [00:12:27]: Yes, it's baffling. It's baffling!

 Mihai Covaser [00:012:31]: It certainly is to me!

Delrene Stade [00:12:32]: Yes, it's disheartening because the programs should be just rich with resources and being able to know that language to have it roll off your tongue and your second thoughts be exactly what you should be doing with students. How to relate to students on a deeper level and to doing a website, to designing a website, that is just disheartening when I heard that. And seeing these girls, especially one of them, struggle in the system, struggle working with students and not really knowing how to problem solve or getting out of sticky situations or the language around it.

 Mihai Covaser [00:13:21]: Yeah. Does that vary by region, by time more so? What do you think if you have any insight on that?
Delrene Stade [00:13:32]: I think it is by region. I actually took my course through community college. It was ranked one of the highest districts upon hiring, they need to carefully dissect the content and audit these programs before hiring these candidates. These individuals coming into our classroom are not prepared. They may have outside experience, which in some cases a lot of them do, which is a bonus. But some candidates don't. So having very little in that toolbox of skills right out of the gate in a constantly evolving profession is disastrous. Oh, this is another thing. Then hiring them with the same wage as someone who has decades of experience, with professional studies cloaking them is frustrating.

 Mihai Covaser [00:14:29]: Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't even consider that the pay structures would also be kind of out of whack. I mean, talking about incentivizing people to participate and to give their best when they have years in the field. Right?

Delrene Stade [00:14:43]: Yes, yes! Honestly, there's very few professions that operate that way. Like labourers, trades, teachers, engineers. They all offer an entrance wage and a salary, which you can work your way into higher pay. That is not so with CEAs and it’s unfortunate.

 Mihai Covaser [00:14:58]: Well, talking about that then. Talking about the role that earns you, that pay. What do you think is the appropriate role of administration in supporting CEAs, resource teachers, gifted ed teachers, whatever it might be? Because we'll get into this a little bit later about the role of the CEA, but first and foremost, where do you see support, or lack thereof, in your experience and how do you think that we should better support CEAs?

Delrene Stade [00:15:28]: Yes. Okay. Because I've worked in two different districts, I've been able to see drastic differences. Which can be a good thing and a bad thing. But coming from an amazingly strong and supportive district to a district that has serious fractures in the educational system. Or supports that have not been put in place, communication and direct involvement with support staff. There is an unfortunate disconnect from the board office to support staff and sadly it trickles down to morale. There isn't a problem with recruiting, there is a problem in keeping CEAs because our jobs are not respected and seen as they should be.

 Mihai Covaser [00:16:16]: Interesting.

Delrene Stade [00:16:17]: I do have to say that the administration, resource teachers, et cetera, at the schools, in the schools, in the trenches, I call it, that I have worked with have been exceptional and quite supportive. But to be very specific, I will go higher in saying that it all starts with the school board, the superintendent, or the CEOs as they like to be called now. The head of special programs, et cetera. In that former district I've worked in, I knew these individual individuals so much that they knew me by name. Not because they lived in my neighbourhood. Not because we connected outside. They knew maybe because I was their support staff. I was part of the greater team. They frequented our schools, the resource rooms. They knew the vulnerable students by name. They came to events, assemblies. They made their presence known. They made themselves accessible, visibly. They gave it time, time, time! And in this district I've been working in now for six years, I've only seen the superintendent once. And that was in passing. He didn't come out from the front offices. It didn't come into our resource room. Wouldn’t attend a staff meeting ever, or assembly, or event, or come to see the grandiose fundraising we did with our students year after year, raising funds enriching their program so they could have more opportunities. And this is where the chasm is ever widening in education here. There can be many ideas for bettering and enriching education. And those decisions are made at the higher level. But if you never come down to see how those ideas are being implemented, it's a rather pointless effort making assumptions that the ideas are actually making a difference.

 Mihai Covaser [00:18:07]: That's really interesting to hear. No, just because this is really a learning episode for me in a lot of ways because I'm so removed from that experience. And you know, I've said this before, I'll say it again, I've always sort of sat on the line between chronic disability and no, like let's say the “normal group of students” because of having a mild disability means I desire and I have a capacity for a lot of independence, but technically speaking, I still sit in the chronic disability group. And so my role, my relationship with CEAs has always been rocky because I want to do all of XYZ and they're saying, liability, you can only do so many things officially speaking. And so, you know, anyway, long story short, but what I wanted to say is I feel as if I remember that, now that you mentioned it, from elementary school and even like middle school, although in middle school it matters less, I suppose, for students, but in elementary school, I think I met the superintendent probably once in the six years that I was in elementary. I remember he came into a some sort of capstone class, we were doing some kind of career something or other. And I remember him coming in and meeting him, but I don't remember anything at assemblies. It was always like our school was its own little bubble, you know, and now you expressing this, I can see how it would be difficult for CEAs to see their work as valued or as part of the greater community. Right?

Delrene Stade [00:19:49]: Right. Yeah. Also, I just wanted to add that the district that I came from, we were just talking about the appropriate role of the administration and the school system. The district I did come from, there were mandatory monthly half-day study sessions and meetings at the board office for behavioural CEAs, with guest speakers from surrounding areas in the lower mainland, BC and Alberta. They were always highlighting new ideas, how to implement time for small and large table collaboration. New ways, new studies, case studies, Autism BC, FAS mental health. The opportunities that they have for us for professional growth was a priority to that district because it ensured that their staff had their A-game. Like we were given the tools and relevant skills necessary to carry out those tools. I firmly believe it's the board's responsibility to ensure that these opportunities are available regularly for their staff.

 Mihai Covaser [00:20:51]: Interesting.

Delrene Stade [00:20:52]: And to make themselves available, giving of their time to invest in and grow professionally with their staff. And that trickles right down. Right down to maintenance.

 Mihai Covaser [00:21:00]: Yeah. Yeah, no, it's interesting because in one of my episodes previously in the description, I linked some resources about this, and we were talking about participating and going out to a pro D Day or going out to whatever opportunities you have for additional learning as a teacher. But, you know, I had the impression was I was looking for resources to link it to that episode, that there aren't all that many in at least my district, you know, there's not a lot going on for teachers, even, or whatever kind of stuff to go out and like continue to improve on their skills and continue to learn. It almost feels like you're there, you graduate, you'll do the work then, and then you get into the job and that's it? Which is a very strange perspective to me, who is someone who thinks about learning as a process and, you know, improving as you sit in a role because as you say, it's constantly changing, right? I mean, you can't be the same CEA you were in, you know, 1990 and expect to be effective. Right. So. Am I right to say that there's not a ton of those opportunities in certain districts?

Delrene Stade [00:22:19]: You are right on the money with that. A hundred percent. It's a shame. It's really a shame. There's so many resources out there. So many people with dynamic skills, with certifications with, that have a bunch of letters behind their names. They could come and speak or do study sessions with us after. We used to do dinner study sessions after work. We used to eat dinner and we had speakers and my goodness, it was fantastic. The training that we were given was great, but I haven't yet, in this district. I’m holding out hope, I’m holding out.

 Mihai Covaser [00:21:00]: I, you know, this just solidifies my burning desire to have an administrator come on the show. If I could convince anyone to come and say something, because again, the point of the show, as I've said before, is this isn't a gotcha game of some kind, this isn't a, you know, I'm not, I don't have an agenda except improving education for students. Right? And so I understand administrators may be fearing something like this because you know, either they're not allowed to say much or they don't want to be criticised for half an hour or what have you. But I really want to hear what the situation is like from their perspective, because there could be very valid reasons, including just lack of resourcing, which may come from elsewhere, right? From government issues from, whatever right? So I really am interested to hear that. That’s neither here nor there for this episode, but maybe someday I'll hold out hope as well. Well to kind of take it toward the end of this, I want to ask you one more question, which is about the role of the CEA. You know, because we've talked about how we can sort of improve things, maybe where we need some additional time and resourcing, but to you, what does the CEA do? What should a CEA do and what does it look like to give your maximum effort or 110%, or however you want to call that? What does that look like to you in a properly performed role as, as a support staff for students?

Delrene Stade [00:24:26]: I could give you a dictionary answer to that, but as I thought about this question, I thought about more and more as in many professions, not all people are called to it. In order to be successful in your role as a CEA, you have to be there because you're passionate about working and supporting vulnerable students and partnering with a team of educational professionals. You're not a one man show. You shouldn't be there because it's going to pay bills. That's not, and if that is, I've always said to my husband, if I wake up one morning or I hate kids, tell me to quit! But if it's going to be the end all be all to put bread on the table, no, I don't want that job. I'm there because I love it. And as I mentioned before, I am, I'm passionate, equally passionate. I'm more passionate—sorry, my kids might listen to this—about being a mom. First and foremost, my role as a parent is really quite similar to being a CEA, in that I would do all I could to ensure success for my children. Much more than making sure that they started the day with a hearty breakfast, a fully stocked lunch, showered, and clean clothes. My husband and I have empowered them with morals and values, daily opportunities for growth mindset, teaching and modelling, a love of learning and a resilience that's so essential for great accomplishment in all areas of their lives. So my question as a mom was always, “what can I do to set them up for success and then let them go?” Not hover but let them go. Like my job as a CEA is working myself out of a job. I don't want students to depend on me. If I do, I failed. I want to empower them, to give them these skills. Time is also a key important component here. Giving of oneself, being present, being accountable is what makes the caregiver a parent and a CEA. If you're there to punch a clock and not give one second more. The results with students that you're supporting will present itself. You can't hide it! If you're not a CEA, you can't hide it. And the classroom will show, the student will show.

 Mihai Covaser [00:26:42]: Yeah, yeah. And that takes us very well to our key takeaway for the episode, which I'll sort of let you just add a little bit to what you've just said, but we were talking about the importance of time. And I was mentioning to you that this is a perfect follow up to Jordan's episode called Short On Time, where. A lot of us students, myself and Jordan among them, we feel where someone's priorities are as a staff member, even if we're not thinking about it. I could tell you of the CEA's that I had, which ones I felt were there for me and which ones weren’t and it has to do with being willing to give time. So, I'll let you just flesh that out a little bit as to the importance of time. And I'll maybe add something once you're done.

Delrene Stade [00:27:37]: Yeah time, I can't speak enough about that. And in a world that's just so rushed, rush hour, rush, everything's rushed! Instagram, TikTok, everything is rushed, rushed, rushed. And I get it in a classroom, teachers have schedules. There are assignments. You have to follow, you have to adhere to, there's bells, there's this. But there are vulnerable students. And even students that you cannot see what's going on inside their heads, what's going on inside their homes. Time is what is always up against these kiddos, even teens. To just allow them that time to process. I need time to process! If I've taught the concept the day before and then the next day, they're just, they just don't get it. Well, just give him time. Sit with them and understand, go back a little bit. All behaviour is communication. That's one takeaway I took from my whole entire chorus was that's the importance, is always know that behaviour presents itself only because there's something that's happened and they're trying to communicate. That's time to understand, get to the heart of it. And not look at the clock, not look at schedules, but give time. And get down to their level, as well as administrators come down to a different level, see things on a different view.

 Mihai Covaser [00:29:07]: Yeah, yeah. And I'll just add to that. My key takeaway is always going to be concrete and relatively simple to implement. And so whether you are a teacher, a CEA, or an administrator, whatever, try, like you said, to attend an event. Make it one event per semester, if you have to start that way or one event every couple of months, maybe one event a month. You know, staying a little bit after hours with a particular student, if you're a CEA, if you feel like that's going to give them those extra ten minutes might be worth hours later of work that you have to do, because they're just not there yet. So, so yeah. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. If you're going to have a little bit of additional time there to join an event that you wouldn't otherwise go to. Or you're talking about grad walks in our talk before this, which is, yeah. I mean, I saw them out in town just these past weeks, right? Just going to do their high school grad walk out through Kelowna and town and I mean, I would love to see someone there that is part of the school administration to be like, it makes me feel good as a student. Absolutely. That's a very good thing to leave us with. And I like that, behaviour is communication. I don't know if I've heard it that way before. I'll take that away from this conversation too.

Delrene Stade [00:30:35]: Oh, awesome!

 Mihai Covaser [00:30:37]: Well, Delrene, thank you very much for coming and talking to me, this was an incredible conversation, a lot of learning for me, and I think for our audience too. So, I really appreciate you making the time.

Delrene Stade [00:30:47]: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Mihai. I appreciate it. It's been an honour. Thank you for these questions that I can have a voice. I just wish I could jump on that soapbox and yell. I don't think I'd be heard as well. So, thank you so much for the opportunity.

 Mihai Covaser [00:31:03]: That’s the hope! Give someone a platform and see what happens right? Well, thank you very much, Delrene. And then hopefully we'll be in touch again in the future.

Delrene Stade [00:31:12]: Thank you, all the best. Take care!

 Mihai Covaser [00:31:03]: You’ve just heard another episode of the community audio project, Help Teach. I’d like to give a huge thank you to my other co-leads on this project: Payton Given, Maggie Manning, Élise Doucet, and Alexis Holmgren, all youth leaders at the Rick Hansen Foundation, who I’d also like to thank for their continued support in this initiative and others. My name is Mihai Covaser. I am your host, editor, and producer for this podcast series. Thank you to Every Canadian Counts and their #RisingYouthInitiative for funding this project and allowing us to put out our vision for change into the community. You can now find all our transcripts, episode notes, and links to other resources on our base site helpteach.transistor.fm, or listen to us wherever you find your podcasts. If you have any questions about the show, or would like to get involved, now get in touch at helpteachpodcast@gmail.com. That’s helpteachpodcast@gmail.com. Tune in next time for more great conversations and key takeaways that you educators can implement in the classroom today, to make it a more accessible and inclusive place for all. Thank you for listening, and I’ll see you next time!